Mark Clark [00:00:00]:
All right, welcome to Mark Clark Podcast. I hope you all doing well. We're in studio, so every once in a while, I'm gonna stop interview someone in studio. So usually it's sermons and all of that, and you guys get that every week, but once in a while, I want to stop and talk to geniuses, interesting people. Now, I was looking for geniuses, but I couldn't find any. So.
CJ Alvarado [00:00:18]:
CJ
Mark Clark [00:00:20]:
See that joke there? Ladies and gentlemen, this is CJ Alvarado. Tell him, Tell him. Tell. Tell him hello.
CJ Alvarado [00:00:25]:
Nice to be here, bro.
Mark Clark [00:00:25]:
Hello, millions. Hello, millions.
CJ Alvarado [00:00:27]:
It's good to be here.
Mark Clark [00:00:28]:
So I wanted to talk to cj. So CJ works at Bayside, but he does many other things in that too. And we've been talking a lot, and he's writing a book right now that I think is a genius thesis. And he's got a whole bunch of amazing ideas about leadership and culture and all those kind of things. So tell us a little bit about, like, what you do. You're the leader of a company. How'd you get into all that?
CJ Alvarado [00:00:50]:
Yeah, I mean, my first company, I started in 19, right? I was like, I'm gonna be a music producer.
Mark Clark [00:00:56]:
Good grief. Hey, this is a lockdown anyway.
CJ Alvarado [00:01:02]:
It's totally show what we run in here.
Mark Clark [00:01:06]:
I love it. So you're 19 years old. You're more successful than all the listeners.
CJ Alvarado [00:01:10]:
No, no, I thought. I thought I was going to be a music producer, right? And so I went out and I bought this cologne called Success. Okay, because the cologne, like, promised influence. Yeah, Success. I sprayed that on Bro, and my college buddies come in, and they were like, bro, did you get a raise? Did you get a promotion? I was like, this cologne's working already. What I learned, though, is that leadership running a company is like. Is so much more than obviously just this little exterior things. And that company didn't work out well because I realized, good at music, not good at business.
CJ Alvarado [00:01:43]:
And that kind of, like, thrusted me into this world of learning. What is it that makes leaders listen to you, decision makers listen to you? All the complexity of business. So that was the first company I launched. That one crashed and burned. Started another one in my mid-20s. That one got acquired by a company called Digidesign. It was like a little aqua hire. They basically just took the team, and I went and worked marketing for them for seven years, designing marketing products there.
CJ Alvarado [00:02:14]:
But our products were, like, on the road with U2, Pixar, South Beach, Miami, doing MTV Spring Break, TRL, and then going to church on Sunday. Right.
Mark Clark [00:02:24]:
So what was the actual product?
CJ Alvarado [00:02:27]:
So the companies I started, it was just a music media company. We saw YouTube was emerging. We wanted to record bands and basically connect them to their fans. It's a pretty novel idea. Back then, not so much now. The company digidesign, they created like music technology, software and hardware. And I went and marketed that basically. Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:02:46]:
So it was a wild ride. And then got out of that and got into ministry. Cause a friend of mine who was an artist that we endorsed was like, you should come help the church. I was like, nah. You know, and got into ministry for a few years and then launched back out and started another company, and that's Bamboo.
Mark Clark [00:03:02]:
What is a Bamboo? So what does Bamboo do?
CJ Alvarado [00:03:04]:
Bamboo is a digital, full service, digital marketing agency. And so we say we're passionate about helping brands and organizations take new ground. My thing is, like, there's so much noise out there. How do we help cut through that noise? Help organizations figure out how to implement all the right stuff and go make an impact. That's really what my heart beats for, man.
Mark Clark [00:03:24]:
That's great. And you do a great job. You work with us. You work with a whole bunch of churches and we're friends, we hang out. And you're a movie guy. So I want to kind of. You know, there's some people around here, they just.
CJ Alvarado [00:03:35]:
Oh, they don't know the movies, dude. No.
Mark Clark [00:03:38]:
What's wrong with these people? So talk about what. What are your, like, what are your top two, three films where you're like, yeah, this is. This is the rewatchable. This is the comfort food. This is like, yeah, the peak. Peak cinema.
CJ Alvarado [00:03:51]:
See, this question's tough for me because I've gotten a point where, like, so many genres over so many years, I just have these, like, I'm a big Nolan fan. I'm a big Scorsese fan. Yeah, right. But when I. When I.
Mark Clark [00:04:02]:
What's your favorite Nolan movie?
CJ Alvarado [00:04:04]:
Inception. Yeah, I think.
Mark Clark [00:04:05]:
Yeah. Yeah, that beats out Interstellar.
CJ Alvarado [00:04:09]:
I mean, Interstellar's so good. You know what I love about Interstellar is like, the sound design.
Mark Clark [00:04:14]:
Yes.
CJ Alvarado [00:04:15]:
Or some would say, like, lack thereof. Like just how spacious it is and minimal in some ways. Yeah, dude, I love it.
Mark Clark [00:04:21]:
Yeah. People complained about the. I mean, it's interesting because they complain about the sound design on Christopher Nolan movie movies.
CJ Alvarado [00:04:29]:
Right.
Mark Clark [00:04:29]:
That's like a thing, you know, people like, what's wrong with the movie theater? And it's like, no, that's literally how he wanted the mix. Overblown. He can't understand some of the words, which is. It's so funny that he does it that way because his plots are so dependent, are so complicated that the talking matters to understand the plot. But he's saying, don't worry about it, just feel it.
CJ Alvarado [00:04:53]:
Yes, well, that's a very Spielberg esque idea too because Spielberg was like 80% of the impact in a movie is the sound. Yeah, right. And so like Nolan has like that dissonance or things that come out and it's like so abrupt and in your face. But I think it's like part of what he's trying to convey.
Mark Clark [00:05:08]:
Yeah, but when you're doing complex dialogue about time travel and tenet and you can't even hear what they're saying because.
CJ Alvarado [00:05:15]:
It'S like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mark Clark [00:05:20]:
And then people are like, I don't understand what's going on. And he's going, I don't. I don't really care. Actually, I just thought of something.
CJ Alvarado [00:05:26]:
So.
Mark Clark [00:05:29]:
There'S this writer. This is going to sound really weird, but connects to this. There's this writer called. His name is Ian McGilchrist. Okay, Ian McGilchrist. He's an Irish like philosopher, he's super smart and he's writing all these super thick, heavy books and he does like neuro science or whatever. Anyway, his big thesis, he wrote this book a bunch of years ago called the Master and the Emissary. Okay.
Mark Clark [00:05:53]:
And basically what it is, it's left brain, right brain. Love this thinking, right? Have you heard this before? So left brain, right brain, okay. So what he said, his thesis is the right brain. The right hemisphere of the brain is more. I mean the categories aren't like super stark, but it's basically is more like meaning, metaphor, art, poetry, meta concepts that organize things into these things. And religion or faith tends to function in the right hemisphere. The left hemisphere is data, logic, reason, what he calls a bean counter in the company. So what he says is what's.
Mark Clark [00:06:37]:
Actually here's the interesting part of the thesis. What's supposed to be the case in the human being is the master is supposed to be the right hemisphere of the brain and the emissary is the left because it goes out. What is supposed to happen is the left hemisphere is supposed to out and do all the logic and the bean counting and gather all the info and then bring it back to the right and say, now how do you want to frame this in regard to meaning, purpose, you know, all of this. But what's happened is, is we've flipped it over the last 150200 years. And the left hemisphere is now the master and. And religion and stories and art and poetry. Meaning. That's secondary to logic and cold reason.
Mark Clark [00:07:25]:
This is such an interesting thing. Well, I thought right now is because what Nolan's basically saying is, don't worry about the left hemisphere, just worry about the right. Worry about the sound and how this is making you feel, how it's moving you along in the story, and don't worry about the dialogue, about time travel and what it all means. Interesting.
CJ Alvarado [00:07:44]:
It's why I think we just fundamentally why movies can't go away. I think we as humans, there's a sense of resonance. And it's. It. To me, I think it's related. But, like, we're in a culture right now that is so infatuated with relevance. Did the scene look cool? Does the. Someone did it like this.
CJ Alvarado [00:08:03]:
We're gonna do it like this, but we miss resonance. The thing in us where, like, you see a movie, you didn't plan on going in there and crying when interstellar main guy. What's his name?
Mark Clark [00:08:15]:
Yeah. Matthew McConaughey.
CJ Alvarado [00:08:16]:
Right.
Mark Clark [00:08:16]:
Like the video camera.
CJ Alvarado [00:08:17]:
Yeah, yeah. And it's like you're. You're there, tough guy and something, and you cannot fight it. Right. That's resonance.
Mark Clark [00:08:24]:
Yeah, it's good.
CJ Alvarado [00:08:25]:
And to me, I go more important. Even in marketing, this is the case, more important than always being relevant is like trying to tap into an idea or, like, give an idea, transmit an idea that makes people feel it. Long before, like, after you've stopped talking, people still feel it.
Mark Clark [00:08:45]:
And it's the same when I get to. I just taught a preaching course with Carrie Newhoff called the Art of Preaching, and we're going to release it, I think, in the fall. And one of the things I was talking about there is, like, sometimes, like, obviously what you're saying is the most important thing because you're talking about the gospel. The content is important. But at the end of the day, like, if you were to go to a group of people at had having lunch after listening to what. What I was saying to Carrie was one of my sermons, because I'm not as logical as Carrie. He does his points and his. You know, I'm all over the place.
Mark Clark [00:09:17]:
And so I said, if you were to sit down with people who just had watched, you know, were at one of the services, went out for lunch, and you walked up and said, what was that sermon about? Oftentimes they don't know. What they do remember is how it made them feel. Right. It's Like, I don't know, he was all over the place. He was telling us this and telling us that. But all I know is I want to change my life and I want to, you know, honor Christ or I want to, but I don't. But if you said no. But what was it about? Like, what was his.
Mark Clark [00:09:45]:
What did he just say? They didn't even know. It's like, it's like you're making an impression.
CJ Alvarado [00:09:49]:
Impression.
Mark Clark [00:09:50]:
You're making them feel something. And that almost becomes the more important. Well, the marketing world.
CJ Alvarado [00:09:55]:
Yeah. Do you feel like in movies we are like, what's your critique of modern day movies in general? And I know, you know, there's some good ones, but like, do you think we've deviated from that?
Mark Clark [00:10:04]:
That's a good question. I. I think.
CJ Alvarado [00:10:08]:
Or is it naturally. Do movies just do that? Is like that. That's what makes a decent or a good movie?
Mark Clark [00:10:13]:
For me, that's what makes. What makes a movie. Like. Well, I mean, there'd be a whole thing on this. But like, the music is so crucial. Like you said, the sound, how it makes you feel, obviously, the acting, cinematography. Like you look at the Godfather and. And the decision, right, the decision he made to make the.
Mark Clark [00:10:32]:
The color like a Rembrandt painting.
CJ Alvarado [00:10:36]:
Right.
Mark Clark [00:10:36]:
Versus, you know, because what people forget is like, the Godfather now is looked at. We've talked about this. But looked at like a. Like a cinematic masterpiece. And it's artsy and it's all that kind of stuff. But back then, the Godfather book was like a pop culture book. Same with Jaws. Everyone was reading it on the beach.
Mark Clark [00:10:55]:
Everyone. It was the most pop. It was the pop culture thing of the time. It was. It was Avengers, right? It was everyone sitting around talking about the Godfather. So when they made the movie, they were like, oh, this is gonna be. Just because there's parts of the story that's like. It's just pulp nonsense, right? It's, oh, he's having sex with her and he's doing that.
Mark Clark [00:11:11]:
All this crazy.
CJ Alvarado [00:11:12]:
Yeah. So Sonny just out there living like Fredo Fredo getting into trouble.
Mark Clark [00:11:21]:
Cocktail waitresses. But then he takes this thing and he elevates it and he goes, no, no, I'm at this thing. So when he hired the cinematographer, it was a Canadian that produced it already. He's. He pulled everybody together. And when they. But when they got the lighting in, the cinematographer they shot it was so dark that when they showed it to the Paramount, they're like, we can't even see it. They're like, did you shoot this whole thing in the pitch dark? Like, what are you doing? We need way more lights on this thing.
Mark Clark [00:11:49]:
And he's like, no, I want this to be like a Rembrandt painting. Like, where they're sitting in their shadows, in the eyes, you can't really see everything. And if you look at those Rembrandt, you know, there's the prodigal son, he's hugging the father, but there's these dark. And then the light here. And that's how he approach. And that's why we look back. That makes you feel it, you know, the genius of that. So I don't know, have we gotten worse at that? People, like, true cinephiles, like the Tarantinos of the world, so they say.
Mark Clark [00:12:16]:
I think they would say the 70s was peak for movies and film. Because if you go through the 70s, it's the godfathers, it's the Apocalyptos, it's, you know, all those movies. I wouldn't say. I mean, we grew up in the 90s, so. The 90s to me is like, how do you beat the late 80s and the 90s?
CJ Alvarado [00:12:36]:
I mean, we have giraffes.
Mark Clark [00:12:37]:
It's like Indiana Jones. It's also. Yeah, yeah, Action.
CJ Alvarado [00:12:40]:
And I mean, it was so over the top, too. Yes. 80s especially, right? Like, just.
Mark Clark [00:12:44]:
Oh, yeah, the Rambos.
CJ Alvarado [00:12:48]:
Right? Predator. Dude, that's so good.
Mark Clark [00:12:52]:
No, the 80s and the 90s to me, were just. It's just. It's re. Watchable. Peak. It's just the movies are just so good. And then I think, you know, the 2000s were whatever, so. Yeah, no, it's a good question.
Mark Clark [00:13:04]:
I would definitely say they were making better movies back then because now, you know, the whole thing's driven just by, you know, money. And it's just nothing goes in a movie theater anymore. There's no romantic comedies. Like, okay, what do you think the best romantic comedy is? Or if. Are you into that genre?
CJ Alvarado [00:13:20]:
No, I mean, like, I definitely have watched my fair share of them. I'm going off the top here. I like Hugh Grant in. What's the one? Hugh Grant? He's in, like, London.
Mark Clark [00:13:33]:
There's a bunch of them. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Notting Hill.
CJ Alvarado [00:13:36]:
Notting Hill. Notting Hill, to me, is fun, right? Like, there's this one scene where he's walking down the street and the seasons are changing. It's like. It's, like, brilliantly shot. So, like, I like that. And plus, I think he's hilarious. He's funny.
Mark Clark [00:13:48]:
And then the tall guy with his underwear.
CJ Alvarado [00:13:50]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:13:51]:
That's funny.
CJ Alvarado [00:13:52]:
I think those are good. And she was.
Mark Clark [00:13:53]:
Pete. She was peak at her heights of her power at that point, too.
CJ Alvarado [00:13:57]:
What about you?
Mark Clark [00:13:58]:
I think When Harry Met Sally is the best.
CJ Alvarado [00:14:01]:
Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal.
Mark Clark [00:14:04]:
But the writing of that movie, like, people forget. It's just genius. And it's New York, of course, and it's. You know, and it's funny. I was rewatching it, you know, probably a year or so ago, and I thought. Actually about 3/4 the way through the movie, I thought because. Because the thing about, like, Rocky, the genius about Rocky, of course, you know, the Rocky story or whatever, he. He writes it and they won't.
Mark Clark [00:14:26]:
They don't want him to be in it. And he's like, well, you don't get it unless I'm in it. And he sold his dog.
CJ Alvarado [00:14:29]:
You know, this dog, amazing story.
Mark Clark [00:14:32]:
So this dog, can you imagine?
CJ Alvarado [00:14:34]:
Guy was. He was. Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:14:36]:
And he's holding on to this Rocky script, and he goes, but I want to be in it. And they're like, no, we'll give you $100,000 or whatever for the script, but you're not going to be in it. And he's like, well, then I'm going to keep it. And, you know, he held off and. Of course. And he. But anyway, the point about Rocky is he actually doesn't win, you know, at the end of the movie.
CJ Alvarado [00:14:53]:
Right.
Mark Clark [00:14:54]:
But he goes the rounds with Apollo Creed. And that's the. That's the thing.
CJ Alvarado [00:14:58]:
Right.
Mark Clark [00:14:59]:
And I actually thought When Harry Met Sally was going to do that. I was three quarters of him, like, oh, they're not going to be together at the end. Like, this is. Why am I forgetting this? Which actually kind of would have been a different. It almost would have made it more brilliant or something, but, you know, kind of like La La Land. Did you like La La Land?
CJ Alvarado [00:15:13]:
You know what? You're gonna hate me.
Mark Clark [00:15:14]:
You haven't seen it.
CJ Alvarado [00:15:15]:
I haven't seen it. I think we talked about this, and you gave me that same response, bro.
Mark Clark [00:15:19]:
Good.
CJ Alvarado [00:15:19]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:15:20]:
You need to watch tonight.
CJ Alvarado [00:15:22]:
It's great.
Mark Clark [00:15:23]:
So, yeah, I think when Harry Mata is probably the best romantic comedy execution, acting, writing ever.
CJ Alvarado [00:15:29]:
What's. What's your top? Top one?
Mark Clark [00:15:31]:
Top three romantic comedies or.
CJ Alvarado [00:15:33]:
No, just movies.
Mark Clark [00:15:34]:
I would go Shawshank.
CJ Alvarado [00:15:35]:
Yes, absolutely.
Mark Clark [00:15:36]:
I think it's. It's the best movie ever made. There's just. No, there's not one wrong note.
CJ Alvarado [00:15:41]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:15:42]:
In that movie. And then Godfather 1, Godfather 2. I mean, I'm a big Spielberg Guy. Okay, so if you put. Okay, here's a. I mean, probably it's gonna be a few directors, but you could get to take one director, not the person, but his movies or her movies to an island for the rest.
CJ Alvarado [00:15:56]:
Of your life and just hang out with them. Tarantino would be so entertaining. I don't know. I don't. I don't know.
Mark Clark [00:16:01]:
You get depressed after a while.
CJ Alvarado [00:16:03]:
That's true.
Mark Clark [00:16:03]:
No, I can watch Pulp Fiction.
CJ Alvarado [00:16:05]:
Yeah. No, I probably would do Spielberg or Nolan.
Mark Clark [00:16:09]:
Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:16:10]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:16:11]:
The thing about Spielberg is you get. You get everything.
CJ Alvarado [00:16:14]:
Yeah, you do.
Mark Clark [00:16:14]:
You get the joy of ET and the tears. You get Josh and. Yeah. You get the.
CJ Alvarado [00:16:19]:
Yeah. I even really, like, Super Super 8 or whatever, you know, like, dude, it was fun. It just brought me back, but it was fun. It was done well. Like. Yeah, I dug.
Mark Clark [00:16:29]:
Okay, let' dig deep on that. Nostalgia.
CJ Alvarado [00:16:31]:
Oh, nostalgia.
Mark Clark [00:16:32]:
What is it about nostalgia that makes us go like, Stranger Things? Like, I watch Stranger Things with my daughter, and it's all 80s.
CJ Alvarado [00:16:40]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:16:41]:
Have you read.
CJ Alvarado [00:16:41]:
Yeah. And it does.
Mark Clark [00:16:42]:
It kind of all the sheets, all the cereal, all the phrases, all the games. It was how I grew up.
CJ Alvarado [00:16:47]:
I think for us, there's a bit of, like, a we again. We resonate with that. We recognize it. We know that. There's a great book, Hitmakers, where he talks about, like, as humans were both. Neophilia. Neophobia. We love new and we fear new.
Mark Clark [00:17:04]:
Interesting, right?
CJ Alvarado [00:17:05]:
And so every hit and every movie that's been a hit, his thesis is that it's found this balance between something we recognize and resonate with.
Mark Clark [00:17:15]:
Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:17:15]:
And then something new that's good. And I think Spielberg actually does a really good job at this. So, like, yeah, super eight. You're. You're like. Like a good portion of the audience goes like, I remember that car.
Mark Clark [00:17:25]:
Yeah, right.
CJ Alvarado [00:17:26]:
Or I'll do those clothes. Like those pants. Right? Like, they. They can actually remember those things.
Mark Clark [00:17:35]:
I watch the Stranger Things and every five seconds I'm like, oh, Bella. That. That's. Those are the. Those are the sheets. I had those Star wars sheets on my bed.
CJ Alvarado [00:17:42]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:17:42]:
You know that cereal? I used to eat that cereal.
CJ Alvarado [00:17:44]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:17:45]:
Dude, she's like, that bike. I literally would bike around my neighborhood.
CJ Alvarado [00:17:49]:
Bike. Like, remember those BMX style bikes? Like, it's. Things like that.
Mark Clark [00:17:52]:
But what about that? Nostalgia is like. So we love it because it's. It's safe.
CJ Alvarado [00:17:57]:
We love it because, I guess we recognize it, we know it. And humans, you know, like, even though we love to act like we love new all the time, we Actually really love the things we recognize, Right?
Mark Clark [00:18:09]:
We love what we know. Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:18:10]:
Yeah. What we know.
Mark Clark [00:18:11]:
Interesting. Because we're scared of what we don't know. That's too much. Are you a whole, like. Are you into. I'm not into horror movies.
CJ Alvarado [00:18:17]:
I got two vivid imagination. I don't need any of that.
Mark Clark [00:18:21]:
Yeah, I watched a couple. There was a. There was one that wasn't really, like, super scary. It was called the Ring. Have you seen the Ring?
CJ Alvarado [00:18:27]:
I heard of it.
Mark Clark [00:18:28]:
We're at the end. The thing happens. I don't really want to ruin this for our audience, but it was a good. It was a good little.
CJ Alvarado [00:18:33]:
How many people podcast watching, bro?
Mark Clark [00:18:37]:
All right, you want me to ruin it? Are you allowed to ruin it?
CJ Alvarado [00:18:40]:
Hey, dude, this is. Listen, if you haven't watched it and you don't want to spoil her, just fast forward.
Mark Clark [00:18:44]:
Stop. Stop listening right now. Or fast forward. Yeah. So the Ring, what was cool about it? I watched it years ago, and I'm not using this movie. So it's about these people when they put in a videotape, and then they die, and you don't know why. Within, like, a day or two, they're dead. And then it, like, goes to the next person and whatever, and they're gonna.
Mark Clark [00:19:02]:
You gotta solve this mystery. And there's this. This videotape of a. Of. And it's like all this old. Like, old film, right? And there's a well, and there's like, what happened to this well? And whoever watches this tape always dies. And what's the deal? And so it's like. It's more just like a mystery almost.
Mark Clark [00:19:17]:
You're watching it as you go and you're trying to solve it. There's scary parts, yeah, but it's more like a murder mystery almost. And then one of the last things that happens, and now it's been parodied so much, but at the time, you had never seen anything. It was very interesting. So you finally. You see, because every time they show the movie, you would see someone watching this old tape of this well, and then you would just stop. So what happens is the last time you see it, you finally find out what's happening. And it's like they're watching this old Bruno, and then all of a sudden, out of the well, this girl comes out of the well, and she's got her long black hair soaking wet, and she comes out of the well, and she starts to walk toward the camera, and you're like, oh, snap, this is creepy.
Mark Clark [00:20:02]:
She's all like. And Then all of a sudden, because you never saw this, right at the end of the movie, you realize she. She goes like this through hand. And the hand comes through the television and then the next hand and all of a sudden her head comes out of the TV and she's dripping wet as she's walking toward the people that are watching it. And she kills. And you're like, oh, dang, I never. And it's so creepy. But it wasn't like, I don't like horror.
Mark Clark [00:20:29]:
Like the spiritual.
CJ Alvarado [00:20:30]:
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Mark Clark [00:20:31]:
Weird.
CJ Alvarado [00:20:31]:
No, I can't.
Mark Clark [00:20:32]:
But the spiritual piece.
CJ Alvarado [00:20:33]:
But okay, so what do you, what do you do with these movies that they terrify you, but they're not like in that classic horror genre. Like let me give you an example. They're more like thrillers. I love this movie and I'm gonna get flack for it. No country for Old Men.
Mark Clark [00:20:46]:
Love it.
CJ Alvarado [00:20:47]:
But dude, genius. That's terrifying.
Mark Clark [00:20:49]:
Yes.
CJ Alvarado [00:20:49]:
There's scenes in that, that character, the way they build the suspense. Yeah, it's not horror in the classical sense, but it's terrifying.
Mark Clark [00:20:56]:
Terrifying, right?
CJ Alvarado [00:20:57]:
So like, what do you do with those types?
Mark Clark [00:20:58]:
Why would you get flack for loving?
CJ Alvarado [00:20:59]:
Well, cuz some people. Some people think that movie's like awful.
Mark Clark [00:21:02]:
Those people are dumb though.
CJ Alvarado [00:21:06]:
Dude, tell me that movie is not amazing. It's genius.
Mark Clark [00:21:08]:
And you realize there's no music.
CJ Alvarado [00:21:10]:
No.
Mark Clark [00:21:10]:
In the whole movie.
CJ Alvarado [00:21:11]:
Yeah, movie's incredible.
Mark Clark [00:21:12]:
No score.
CJ Alvarado [00:21:13]:
How, how. What's his name? The guy who played the.
Mark Clark [00:21:16]:
Oh, like, yeah, the guy or whatever.
CJ Alvarado [00:21:18]:
Yeah, that guy was brilliant.
Mark Clark [00:21:20]:
Yeah, genius. And they say that he's. They did this study. Like who, who, which villain? Yeah, did the best of all time. Whatever. And he's. And he's the top one. They said he, he played the best like Psycho in history.
Mark Clark [00:21:35]:
It was him. And then silence and lambs.
CJ Alvarado [00:21:37]:
Anthony Hopkins, he was villain in I don't know if his Mission Impossibles. He did a Mission Impossible.
Mark Clark [00:21:45]:
Skyfall.
CJ Alvarado [00:21:46]:
Unbelievable too.
Mark Clark [00:21:48]:
His teeth are all fun.
CJ Alvarado [00:21:49]:
Yeah, it was unbelievable.
Mark Clark [00:21:51]:
No, he's a good. What is that my kid? I think he was. Yeah, I can't either, so. So yeah, that movie's genius.
CJ Alvarado [00:21:57]:
So no horror for me, but I could do those.
Mark Clark [00:21:58]:
Yes.
CJ Alvarado [00:21:59]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:21:59]:
What I love about that movie is the opening and this is what people misunderstood about it. So Cormac McCarthy, the guy who wrote the book, he's a genius writer. Like one day it's one of those. Like one day I'd be half the writer. Cormac McCarthy is. He's genius and he wrote that book he wrote the Road. He wrote a bunch of amazing books. So the beginning of that is that monologue by Tommy Lee Jones.
CJ Alvarado [00:22:25]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:22:26]:
And which is genius. And then at the end of the movie, of course, it's him telling his wife about a dream that he had. And then all of a sudden, the movie ends, and that's what people forget. What's it? But if you go back and you listen to what he's saying and you hear the opening monologue and you hear the end, you put them together. This is what the whole movie's about. I mean, it's genius. So I'm a fan.
CJ Alvarado [00:22:47]:
You got to let go, bro. That's the thing. Movies. You got to let go. Let them take you somewhere. Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:22:51]:
And realize the Coen brothers were trying to not do the classic.
CJ Alvarado [00:22:55]:
Yeah, exactly.
Mark Clark [00:22:56]:
They know. They know the audience is going to scream, what the heck? You know? They know that.
CJ Alvarado [00:23:01]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:23:02]:
But they don't care. And they also know 10 years on, people are gonna maybe appreciate what we're trying to do here.
CJ Alvarado [00:23:08]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:23:09]:
So another example of that for me is the Social Network.
CJ Alvarado [00:23:12]:
Great movie.
Mark Clark [00:23:12]:
Have you seen them?
CJ Alvarado [00:23:13]:
Yeah, of course. Great. Genius.
Mark Clark [00:23:15]:
So genius. David Fincher.
CJ Alvarado [00:23:17]:
Yeah. Great movie.
Mark Clark [00:23:18]:
Aaron Sork. It's just such fast talking and all the stuff. And you would think this movie about Facebook is going to be like a boar town.
CJ Alvarado [00:23:26]:
No, it was great. Great. Great cast.
Mark Clark [00:23:29]:
Yeah. So. So. So you take Spielberg. I take Spielberg to a desert. Okay. So your top. Your top is Shawshank.
Mark Clark [00:23:35]:
Similar to me.
CJ Alvarado [00:23:36]:
Yeah. Love Godfathers.
Mark Clark [00:23:38]:
Throw one out there. Random. That we haven't talked about.
CJ Alvarado [00:23:41]:
Random. Let me finish.
Mark Clark [00:23:42]:
I love a good re. Watch a good. Do you like Schindler's List? Can you watch Schindler's List?
CJ Alvarado [00:23:47]:
Yeah. It's heavier for me.
Mark Clark [00:23:48]:
Yeah, it's not.
CJ Alvarado [00:23:49]:
I don't know why. This one's coming up. Have you ever seen Life is Beautiful?
Mark Clark [00:23:51]:
Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:23:52]:
Foreign film.
Mark Clark [00:23:52]:
Yeah. Italian. Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:23:54]:
Yeah, yeah. So that's a great movie.
Mark Clark [00:23:56]:
That's cool.
CJ Alvarado [00:23:57]:
I don't know if I've seen that a ton or over again, but it's.
Mark Clark [00:24:00]:
Just a good movie. Not the kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:24:01]:
I don't know, man. So many things.
Mark Clark [00:24:04]:
Well, yeah. I love the concept that you even, from a marketing standpoint, understand the need for us to be thinking about how to make people feel. What's the meaning of stuff versus just the content of. Hayes. So you're writing a book, and I love the thesis of this book. So give us the name. I don't want to ruin all the details. Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:24:28]:
No project's called how to. Or win the room.
Mark Clark [00:24:30]:
Yeah, win the room.
CJ Alvarado [00:24:31]:
And the idea is real simple, is that, you know, for the rest of our career and work, no matter how old we are, no matter what stage in our work we're in, we're always going to be doing one of three things. We're going to try to get in the room, win the room, and stay in the room. And the room represents spaces and places where decision makers gather and ideas are shared, resources are allocated. People decide who gets promoted, who gets let go, what initiatives we're gonna go after. And all we have to go on in our career generally are a bunch of myths. There's more myths than maps, is what I kind of say. Like, and one big myth is, like, if I work hard, things work out. And yet we know really smart people who work really hard, and yet they struggle to get seen, heard, and compensated.
CJ Alvarado [00:25:18]:
The other myth is, like, I'm just gonna say yes to everything. They say yes. They feel like they're doing everything. And then someone says something, you're like, that person definitely doesn't work as hard. Why are they getting the reward and recognition? So in the book I pull from, man, I've probably read a hundred books on the topic. So there's a ton of my own research, but then there's a bunch of just anecdotal stuff and stories from my own path of, like, pitching ideas to different types of people. Right. Been in a lot of these rooms where I'm doing this right or we're doing it and those dynamics.
CJ Alvarado [00:25:53]:
And there's a lot of funny stories, doing it in the states and over 15 different countries, pitching in different languages. And a lot of these anecdotes that I've pulled from that are like, it has less to do oftentimes with what we think it is. You know, a lot of times we think we need pedigree, educational pedigree. And though it helps in the room, you're really dealing with a lot more reptilian old brain stuff than you are. Like intelligence, rational thinking, and other things.
Mark Clark [00:26:21]:
You would think back to the left, right brain.
CJ Alvarado [00:26:23]:
Exactly, man. Exactly. So, I mean, I could honestly talk for days on that. And there's multiple chapters in this book, so I just want to provide people with a blueprint. I feel like there's four major themes that I'm trying to help people really hone in on. You got to get back to solving the right problem. There's a great study out there that says 97% of C suite executives say that they don't have a problem solving problems. They have a problem identifying or diagnosing the right ones.
Mark Clark [00:26:53]:
Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:26:53]:
So we spend a lot of time just doing stuff.
Mark Clark [00:26:55]:
Sure.
CJ Alvarado [00:26:56]:
And the problem. Busy work. Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:26:57]:
Idle hands. Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:26:59]:
Yeah. So you got to solve. Right. Problems. And I'll just blow through these real quick. But the second one is really understanding perceptions. Like land. The right perception.
CJ Alvarado [00:27:06]:
The perception of us is in the room before we ever get in the room. Right. And I share a story about, like, I got into this room, A CEO hands me two sheets of paper. It's full of names, front and back. And he's like, we gotta let some people go. And I looked at the paper, and it's just names. And I'm like, there's no brief. There's no excerpt about what these guys have done.
CJ Alvarado [00:27:26]:
The only thing there was the perception in the room. And went around the room. Five folks like, who's John? Oh, he's the sales guy who wrote the re. Wore a red suit at the company. Oh, yeah. Remember that guy?
Mark Clark [00:27:36]:
I hate red. He's out.
CJ Alvarado [00:27:39]:
There's that gal. She. She's a really hard worker. She's sweet. These perceptions fly around everywhere, and they're in the room before you're ever in the room. Right. And so most people don't know what those are. The third piece is really learning how to communicate.
CJ Alvarado [00:27:53]:
Landing the right pitch or delivering the right pitch. We think since we've been talking since we were 2 years old, that we know how to talk to decision makers. And so I try to outline, like, how we have to do that today. And then the last one is just people, the people you align with.
Mark Clark [00:28:07]:
So back to your a room thing, though.
CJ Alvarado [00:28:10]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:28:11]:
You're either. What? You're out. Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:28:12]:
You're trying to get into it.
Mark Clark [00:28:14]:
Okay.
CJ Alvarado [00:28:14]:
Win it and stay in it.
Mark Clark [00:28:16]:
Right. What is the. You said there's three things. You're either. You're either in it at the very, very beginning. What did you say?
CJ Alvarado [00:28:23]:
You're trying to get in the room. In the room, Stay in the room. Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:28:27]:
You said, like, you're in the room, you're out of the room, or you're trying to get in the room or something.
CJ Alvarado [00:28:32]:
Most of us get into a place where we're not in it.
Mark Clark [00:28:34]:
It. You're right.
CJ Alvarado [00:28:35]:
And we're trying to get in it.
Mark Clark [00:28:36]:
Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:28:36]:
And so we just think if we work.
Mark Clark [00:28:37]:
So once you're in it.
CJ Alvarado [00:28:38]:
Once you're in it, you're not done. You got to win it.
Mark Clark [00:28:40]:
Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:28:41]:
Right. And so when you're in it. Yeah. You could be in the room. Right. And we. You probably have your own stories where you're like, I'm working in an organization. I got a great contact who got me in the room.
CJ Alvarado [00:28:52]:
Here I am. Your contact leaves. Two years later, a new guy comes in, wants to bring in his team. Right now. Now you're fighting to be in the room again.
Mark Clark [00:28:59]:
Right, Right.
CJ Alvarado [00:29:00]:
And so we're always kind of doing this. Even if you're a CEO, as a CEO, you might get in a room where you got to win the board. You gotta win some investors, some donors. Right. So we're always kind of wrestling with these spaces and places where we're really trying to get things done. Yeah, yeah.
Mark Clark [00:29:15]:
So we were over dinner a few months ago, and you were talking about how Daniel, the character in the Bible plays into this. He had this, like, little spiel on Daniel.
CJ Alvarado [00:29:27]:
Talk about that Daniel, like, this came from, like, my grandmother. She was the one who was going to. Out of the book of Daniel, Daniel, you know, chapter one, he. They're exiled. They're coming in. The king's main chief of staff tells him, go do two things. Go find the treasure from Israel and talent. Bring all the gold and stuff from the temple, bring it on in here, and then go bring the talent.
CJ Alvarado [00:29:50]:
It's out of millions of people.
Mark Clark [00:29:51]:
Treasure and talent.
CJ Alvarado [00:29:52]:
Yeah, bro. It's a two thing. Leaders are always doing that. Leaders are always looking for talent and treasure. Right. Like metaphorically, money and good people. Yeah, 100%. And so she was the one who highlighted that.
CJ Alvarado [00:30:04]:
Hey, listen, Daniel focused on solving the problem that kept the king. Kept the king up at night.
Mark Clark [00:30:11]:
Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:30:11]:
And I loved that because she was going, here's this guy. He has a dream, doesn't know what it means, goes to all his smart advisors. Tell me my dream. They're like, no, you tell us and then we'll tell you what it means. He's like, no, I'm going to kill you if you don't. Here's this one guy who basically, like, all right, I'll let you know. You know, his perception, the perception of him led him in the room. At the end of chapter one, it says, then Daniel and his friends.
CJ Alvarado [00:30:32]:
Friends. Took his rightful place in the room with the king. And I love that. I love it for believers. I love it for just everyday people that, like, the room matters.
Mark Clark [00:30:42]:
Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:30:42]:
You know, and that's great. So, yeah.
Mark Clark [00:30:44]:
So you're wanting to get in the room to make decisions. One of the things you talked about was solving problems that are keeping them awake at night. So what's like, an example you've seen of someone who's gone? Because that's like an attitude thing. That's like a. Yeah, people. Like, when I, like, we sit kind of in the room of the organization we work for, and the people I notice are the people who have a servant heart. To go, I'll go after, I'll do whatever needs to get done, versus the people who are like, that's not my job description. That's kind of what you're talking about.
CJ Alvarado [00:31:17]:
Yeah, it is. Like, there are people who instinctively just kind of go, what is the most impactful thing we need to do? But something weird happens the moment that, you know, someone has power. And I use the word power, like, really broadly. Like, just anybody who has control over resources is what I mean by power. But, like, the moment your direct reports know you have power, they no longer see you as, like, a person. They see you as, like this role, a tool, this tool, this person who can solve all of their problems. Right. Like, I'm not coming to listen to what Mark's keeping Mark up.
CJ Alvarado [00:31:54]:
Mark has the answer to everything I need. And then what happens when Mark doesn't have the time or attention or Mark doesn't want to develop me? He's a bad leader, which is. I just can't fathom how so many people in the workplace think this way. So what happens is that they end up leaving an organization. They quit and they leave, which creates a retention problem, or they quit and they stay, which creates a morale problem. Right. And so my solution is going to. And how many of you know what's keeping your leader up at night? And I've made it a point, Mark, over like the last seven, 10 years, to know what keeps every CEO I work with up at night.
CJ Alvarado [00:32:33]:
It's usually growing something, increasing revenue, something. Right.
Mark Clark [00:32:38]:
Selling something.
CJ Alvarado [00:32:39]:
Then I think, yeah, sell it something. So then I think about how can I apply what I do to help solve that problem? And that to them, it feels like, Jude, I got someone in the foxhole with me.
Mark Clark [00:32:52]:
But that's every. Every employee should be going, this is the way. Forget this is the way up the ladder.
CJ Alvarado [00:33:00]:
No, it is.
Mark Clark [00:33:01]:
But this is just the way to serve people. And if you do that well, you're gonna be more successful. I guarantee you are gonna go, they solved a problem for me. Who is that girl who solved that problem for me? Get her in here.
CJ Alvarado [00:33:12]:
Absolutely right.
Mark Clark [00:33:12]:
Who's that? Who's that dude down there? I met him down there. He already knew what I had to do. And he grabbed it and ran with it. And he. He did it.
CJ Alvarado [00:33:19]:
Yeah. I tell this story in the book. Well, this was early on in my career. I was like, 24. I was working at Digidesign, big tech company. And the CEO, Christopher Bach, at the time, he thought, man, this kid's got some potential. He brings me to this room, and they had all the windows boarded up because they were working all this top secret tech at the time. He brings me in, I'm like, sitting there.
CJ Alvarado [00:33:43]:
We had guys there who like. Like, we're the producers and managers of U2 in the room. MTV guys, Pixar guy. They're all going around talking, and I was just like, flattery. Using flattery. And just, oh, yeah, that sounds great. Oh, yeah. Good, good, good.
CJ Alvarado [00:33:59]:
At the break, he pulls me into the hallway, and he's like, hey, you enjoying yourself? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, what are you doing? I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, what are you doing? And I'm like, christopher, I don't understand. Like, I'm here. And right before that, too, I was kind of like in these meeting or in these little clusters of people there, and I'm just like, yeah, so, man, I love your work on this and that in the hallway, he's like, stop being nice. Be instrumental. Don't be nice. Be instrumental. He wasn't telling me to be a jerk, right? But he was saying, like, flattery to guys who are trying to solve complex problems.
CJ Alvarado [00:34:36]:
It's just noise. But the people who are like, what is Mark trying to solve? Oh, I get it. I'm gonna ask questions about it. I'm gonna get educated on it. I'm gonna figure out how to use my creativity to solve that. Those are the guys Mark notices. Those are the guys. Every decision maker goes, get that guy back in the room.
CJ Alvarado [00:34:51]:
Right?
Mark Clark [00:34:51]:
100%.
CJ Alvarado [00:34:51]:
And if you keep cultivating, think about the span of your career. If you take the next year, two, three years to acquire skills that help those leaders solve that problem, you're gonna do better than most people around you.
Mark Clark [00:35:03]:
And that's what people misunderstand. They think when you're sitting in a room, room. Flattery. Flattery gets you. It's like, picture like the. The intern. You know, let's say you're a mid-40s, hypothetically, a mid-40s person. And the intern who's 20, comes in and they're like, oh, you're such a great.
Mark Clark [00:35:23]:
This cj. You're such a great job. Mark, you're a Great preacher. Can you, you know, I signed my Bible. This is, you're like, no, no, but if someone comes in, in the next meeting. And so, so there's flattery, but then there's the one who thinks that they're, they're winning the room or showing their worth by like being critical. You know, I don't think any of the anxiety there. What about, you know, I read this thing from Forbes the other day.
Mark Clark [00:35:48]:
It says we need, you know, it's like, let me throw this bomb in and, and everyone else is going to go, oh, this genius just came in. It's like, you can't be doing that either. You can't look like a know it all because these people are like this, this kid thinks he's smarter than everyone in the room and he's not. And you can't be a flattery person. So you're right. You gotta come in and help solve the problem.
CJ Alvarado [00:36:12]:
Yes. And that's it. You've got problem spotters in the room. That's all they do. To your point. They shoot ideas down. You're like, thank you, genius. You spotted what we all know.
Mark Clark [00:36:21]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
CJ Alvarado [00:36:22]:
But no solution. You want problem solvers, not problem spotters. Right. And so my feeling is the best path for that and for those who are maybe younger in their career. Focus on instrumentality. Just how can I be instrumental to the leaders that are around me or the organization I'm in and just commit to it? Like it, it's an, it's a deeper truth that if you just stay patient with it, will serve you well over time.
Mark Clark [00:36:47]:
Yeah, right.
CJ Alvarado [00:36:47]:
And a lot of people miss that.
Mark Clark [00:36:49]:
All right. Anything else in Win the Room that you're missing that you think because, I mean, I mean, you're gonna write it.
CJ Alvarado [00:36:54]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:36:55]:
And when he writes it, we'll have him back on and you can buy it.
CJ Alvarado [00:36:58]:
I think like the last thing I, I, I'll focus on and tell people is really about when you're working with decision makers to understand that attention. Seth Godin said it great. He says attention like what I'm asking you to focus on, Mark. It's the rarest and purest form of generosity.
Mark Clark [00:37:15]:
I love that giving someone else your attention.
CJ Alvarado [00:37:18]:
Your attention given to me.
Mark Clark [00:37:19]:
Yes.
CJ Alvarado [00:37:20]:
Is the rarest and purest form of generosity. So if I go into a room and I don't know what the heck I need to ask this decision maker. You're not even stewarding their generosity, their attention.
Mark Clark [00:37:32]:
Well, yes, they're attending.
CJ Alvarado [00:37:33]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:37:33]:
Yes.
CJ Alvarado [00:37:33]:
Because the truth is you're not Asking for two minutes of their time. You're asking for energy. And energy is our capacity to do work. Right. So like if I take five minutes of your time. Have you ever been in a meeting where someone's talking five, 10 minutes in, you're like, I don't even know what we're talking about.
Mark Clark [00:37:47]:
This guy's saying, yeah, so I've not.
CJ Alvarado [00:37:49]:
Only taken 10 minutes of your time, I've taken your mental capacity to solve problems, bro.
Mark Clark [00:37:54]:
Well, this is why. So that as I think about that my wife was. We're at the. Doing the Thrive conference right now as we record this and my wife was setting up all the. She took all of our furniture from our house, brought it here, cleaned it all and then. And has it all set up. So she's working on this for 12 hours yesterday and people are, she's moving all the couches around, doing all this stuff and this Thrive college student. We have a college here on the campus, but I think it's 50, 55 kids in it.
Mark Clark [00:38:20]:
And one of the students walked up to her and just said, hey, you know, I'm graduating in like a month. Can you convince your husband to just do lunch with me? Just I just before I leave, I just need lunch with him, you know, And I thought, how. I mean, first, what a privilege for a kiddo, a 22 year old kid to want to spend time with me in that sense. But it's like, you know, what he's asking for is my attention.
CJ Alvarado [00:38:50]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:38:50]:
And the question is, what's he gonna do with that time? Because I'm gonna do it. It'll be interesting to see because what he shouldn't do is just sit across from me and stare at me and make me talk. Now I know that's probably what's gonna happen. So I'm gonna go in asking him questions and trying to figure out about his life and try to speak into his life in whatever time I can. But what he should be doing is walking into that with a very clear like, let me ask you, what should he. Hours or whatever.
CJ Alvarado [00:39:22]:
I mean if you get two hours.
Mark Clark [00:39:23]:
Or whatever and a half.
CJ Alvarado [00:39:25]:
Right? Yeah. I think, I think first and foremost in those situation it's like lay out with as little cognitive load as possible what it is we want to solve. So if I come to you and, and whether you're my boss or just somebody I get to have coffee with, it's like, here's the problem that I'm trying to solve. Here are some ideas and solutions that I'm thinking about. It. I would love your thoughts.
Mark Clark [00:39:46]:
Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:39:47]:
On that.
Mark Clark [00:39:47]:
It's great, right?
CJ Alvarado [00:39:48]:
Whereas in most rooms, we're in. Unfortunately, even among very smart people, we're verbally processing. We don't even know if we're agreeing on what the right problem is to solve.
Mark Clark [00:40:00]:
Yeah.
CJ Alvarado [00:40:01]:
So someone's coming up with solutions. You're like, I don't even think that's the problem worth solving yet. I think the problem's over. Like, so this is.
Mark Clark [00:40:08]:
Just think. I'm thinking of Moneyball lines right now. Same old body. Yeah, man.
CJ Alvarado [00:40:13]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:40:14]:
Yeah. Billy, we're not even asking the question. We're not even asking.
CJ Alvarado [00:40:17]:
Looking at the question with Billy, it's. It's amazing.
Mark Clark [00:40:20]:
We're not even looking at the question.
CJ Alvarado [00:40:21]:
And that's it. So for me, I get so passionate about all of it because I'm just like, we can't expect to have real impact if one. We're not better stewarding, solving the right problems, obviously. But if we're not stewarding each other's attention, and I think we live in a day and age where people feel entitled right. To that intention. I feel entitled to your attention. Like, you're my boss. Yeah, bro.
Mark Clark [00:40:43]:
No, give me an hour and a half and let me. Yeah. And I thought what you said earlier was genius, that if they don't. If your supervisor isn't good at doing certain things, which, of course they're not going to be perfect. They're not going to be. Then it's their problem and it's their fault. And, you know, and it's like, what if you brought something to the table and went, hey, supervisor. Yes, I realize, xyz, I think I could solve it for you.
Mark Clark [00:41:03]:
That's genius.
CJ Alvarado [00:41:04]:
Genius, Right?
Mark Clark [00:41:05]:
It's not only the right spirit of servanthood, it's the way to succeed in life. It's a way to get ahead. That.
CJ Alvarado [00:41:10]:
And that's the thing in the book I talk about. There's a difference between what gets valued and what gets right. Rewarded. The people who are looking at you going, like, tell me what to do. Sure, we're going to value you. That's what we. That's why we give you a check. But the people.
Mark Clark [00:41:21]:
That's what the money's for. Have you seen that clip?
CJ Alvarado [00:41:23]:
That's what the money's for. You never say thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it, bro. Like, but. But this is about winning the room. The people who get rewarded are those who are solving the problems who are, you know, looking at what those are and then trying to apply creative solutions to it.
Mark Clark [00:41:39]:
It's really good. Really good, man. Okay. Hopefully it's been helpful to you. Thank you, cj. We'll do this again. Again. And all things movies and winning the room and being a great leader.
Mark Clark [00:41:48]:
So love you all. Glad you're watching the Mark Clark podcast. See you next time. Hear you next time. Whatever.